I've just finished Such A Fun Age - and I suspect I am going to be thinking about the mother in that, Alix (complacent, self-obsessed, desperately trying to hold on to her old life to the point of neglecting her oldest daughter...), for a long time.
Thanks so much for mentioning this, Alix is a wonderful 'bad' mother - and especially compelling because she thinks she's doing a great job! I love that book. Come And Get It is wonderful, too - just as sharp, pacy and provocative!
Possibly controversial, but I’ve always felt rather sorry for Mrs B. She’s shrill and hysterical and a shameless snob, but she’s also a realist about the life which faces them after Mr B dies. I know he’s meant to be avuncular and long-suffering but he’s pretty cutting, cruel even, at times. At least Mrs B worries about her daughters’ fates. (Mind you, defend as I do, Mrs B cannot be easy to live with.)
I’m still horrified by Eleanor in Patrick Melrose’s novels: turns a blind eye to the abuse and then gives away the family estate. And Brenda in A Handful of Dust - said to be a fictionalised version of Waugh’s first wife. In which case either she was AWFUL or Waugh really loathed her! (That moment when she’s told ‘John is dead’ - and is relieved it’s her son, not her lover.)
Second this for Mrs B. Romance does not feed a family of hungry girls - and I think that trope of the bumbling or innocent or disconnected father being let off anything and everything while the shrill wife is criticised prevails, through literature and life.
I got a big whiff of Eleanor from Ros Pike in Saltburn. Shivers.
That moment with Brenda - what a brilliant and chilling example! My own father has always maintained that Mr Bennett is the real villain of the piece (possibly this is linked to his adoration of Alison Steadman!) But I think you’re right - Mrs Bennett seems to live in a world of her own imagination but she might be the most practical and realistic of them all. Harder to find an excuse for Pam Jones, though…
Allison is such a great character! You want to hate her so much, but ultimately can't. I seem to veer towards writing the bad mothers (sorry not sorry, Mum..!) which hopefully turn out nuanced. BUT this has made me wonder about trying to write a good one, feels like it would be a worthy challenge/experiment. I really loved how the - real - mother in Tanya Shadrick's memoir A Cure for Sleep totally confounds at the end (won't spoil it for anyone who hasn't read it, and do read it). And the mum in Tessa Hadley's Free Love, Phyllis, who doesn't look back - she can't, can she?
At the Margate Bookie, you asked Tessa a brilliant question about Phyllis, and how we can defend a mother who abandons her children. I remember thinking that I felt hugely sympathetic towards her, and that I might be in the minority! While Phyllis isn’t a good mother to her children in lots of ways, I love her for modelling an alternative future to her daughter - and she does invite her into her new life. (I’ve just read Catherine Gray’s debut, Versions Of A Girl, and there is some SHOCKING mothering going on in that - by comparison Phyllis is mother of the year!)
Very much doubt you're in the minority! But having the balls (sorry) to do it is another thing - for a writer as much as a person, I think. You're inviting in everyone's reproach and hared, and sticking with it. Love that Elena Ferrante on this - The Lost Daughter
Carrie's mother in Stephen King's Carrie. I loved reading about a real witchy evil mom who used religion to abuse her kid. It gave me that feeling you get when you watch a storm from inside next to a cozy fire. My mom has loads of empathy and didn't deserve half of the headache I gave her.
When you asked which fictional mother has left a lasting impression on you, for me, it has to be Mrs Bennett, which is funny as other people have mentioned her too! She is a fantastic character who lives her life through her daughters (Jane and Lydia in particular). Always wondered that if she does this because Jane is the oldest, and if Lydia is meant to be most like her? And yes, Alison Steadman is iconic in that role (rewatched P&P last autumn).
I read Curtis Sittenfeld's 'Eligible' over the summer, and her retelling she nailed some of the Austen's voice.
I've just finished Such A Fun Age - and I suspect I am going to be thinking about the mother in that, Alix (complacent, self-obsessed, desperately trying to hold on to her old life to the point of neglecting her oldest daughter...), for a long time.
Thanks so much for mentioning this, Alix is a wonderful 'bad' mother - and especially compelling because she thinks she's doing a great job! I love that book. Come And Get It is wonderful, too - just as sharp, pacy and provocative!
‘introverted show-offs’ omg! I have never heard this term before but boy does it hit home!
Possibly controversial, but I’ve always felt rather sorry for Mrs B. She’s shrill and hysterical and a shameless snob, but she’s also a realist about the life which faces them after Mr B dies. I know he’s meant to be avuncular and long-suffering but he’s pretty cutting, cruel even, at times. At least Mrs B worries about her daughters’ fates. (Mind you, defend as I do, Mrs B cannot be easy to live with.)
I’m still horrified by Eleanor in Patrick Melrose’s novels: turns a blind eye to the abuse and then gives away the family estate. And Brenda in A Handful of Dust - said to be a fictionalised version of Waugh’s first wife. In which case either she was AWFUL or Waugh really loathed her! (That moment when she’s told ‘John is dead’ - and is relieved it’s her son, not her lover.)
Second this for Mrs B. Romance does not feed a family of hungry girls - and I think that trope of the bumbling or innocent or disconnected father being let off anything and everything while the shrill wife is criticised prevails, through literature and life.
I got a big whiff of Eleanor from Ros Pike in Saltburn. Shivers.
That moment with Brenda - what a brilliant and chilling example! My own father has always maintained that Mr Bennett is the real villain of the piece (possibly this is linked to his adoration of Alison Steadman!) But I think you’re right - Mrs Bennett seems to live in a world of her own imagination but she might be the most practical and realistic of them all. Harder to find an excuse for Pam Jones, though…
Allison is such a great character! You want to hate her so much, but ultimately can't. I seem to veer towards writing the bad mothers (sorry not sorry, Mum..!) which hopefully turn out nuanced. BUT this has made me wonder about trying to write a good one, feels like it would be a worthy challenge/experiment. I really loved how the - real - mother in Tanya Shadrick's memoir A Cure for Sleep totally confounds at the end (won't spoil it for anyone who hasn't read it, and do read it). And the mum in Tessa Hadley's Free Love, Phyllis, who doesn't look back - she can't, can she?
At the Margate Bookie, you asked Tessa a brilliant question about Phyllis, and how we can defend a mother who abandons her children. I remember thinking that I felt hugely sympathetic towards her, and that I might be in the minority! While Phyllis isn’t a good mother to her children in lots of ways, I love her for modelling an alternative future to her daughter - and she does invite her into her new life. (I’ve just read Catherine Gray’s debut, Versions Of A Girl, and there is some SHOCKING mothering going on in that - by comparison Phyllis is mother of the year!)
Very much doubt you're in the minority! But having the balls (sorry) to do it is another thing - for a writer as much as a person, I think. You're inviting in everyone's reproach and hared, and sticking with it. Love that Elena Ferrante on this - The Lost Daughter
This has given me a lot to think about Daisy, thank you!
Thank you so much for reading, it's really lovely to hear from you!
Carrie's mother in Stephen King's Carrie. I loved reading about a real witchy evil mom who used religion to abuse her kid. It gave me that feeling you get when you watch a storm from inside next to a cozy fire. My mom has loads of empathy and didn't deserve half of the headache I gave her.
When you asked which fictional mother has left a lasting impression on you, for me, it has to be Mrs Bennett, which is funny as other people have mentioned her too! She is a fantastic character who lives her life through her daughters (Jane and Lydia in particular). Always wondered that if she does this because Jane is the oldest, and if Lydia is meant to be most like her? And yes, Alison Steadman is iconic in that role (rewatched P&P last autumn).
I read Curtis Sittenfeld's 'Eligible' over the summer, and her retelling she nailed some of the Austen's voice.